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| Guest |
 Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 12:10 pm |
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On Fri, 27 Jul 2007, Sander Devrieze wrote:
> Oh yes, from a
> contributor point of view Tigase seems to be the best XMPP server
> project these days (and Openfire the worst, despite all the money Jive
> wastes in order to keep its community).
What's up with you and Jive? Personal feelings hurt or something? I've
seen multiple references from both them and you hitting on each other.
Why? And why in public anyway?
Ben
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| Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 12:13 pm |
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On 7/27/07, Sander Devrieze <s.devrieze@pandora.be> wrote:
> 2007/7/27, Sergei Golovan <sgolovan@nes.ru>:
>
> > BTW, where are the sources of installer scripts? I assume that they
> > should be available by terms of ejabberd license.
>
> I don't think this is necessary by the license.
The binary installer is a clear derivative from ejabberd. So, its
sources must be available on demand of anyone who have the binary.
Where could I demand the sources?
--
Sergei Golovan
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| Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 1:39 pm |
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2007/7/27, Benjamin Podszun <ben@galactic-tales.de>:
> What's up with you and Jive? Personal feelings hurt or something? I've
> seen multiple references from both them and you hitting on each other.
> Why? And why in public anyway?
I'm now talking about something different. I'm talking about how
open-source projects work and how they attract contributors, like what
you also can read on the book http://producingoss.com/ Openfire is
AFAICS not so good in this and they just try to solve this to put a
lot of money in their community. Anyway, I don't have a problem with
software projects that are not independent in a way that attracts
contributors. I just don't contribute to such projects (that's why I
don't (plan) to contribute to Jive's projects and why I don't
contribute to ejabberd anymore).
off-topic part:
What you are referring to is something else. I don't care if Jive is
bad (IMO) in community management. I don't care that they spend too
much money in their community than necessary. That's not my problem.
My problem with Jive is that they hurt a broader community of which I
am part of. They do things that hurt the Jabber community (you know
what I am talking about, see my posts over there). It seems Jive
Software is a company that never heard of the concept stakeholders :s
There are 2 reasons why I become more rude over time in my posts in
the Jive forums:
1) Jive does not try to solve the issues I pointed out there (to name
one, Jabber community hurting practice by name: no interested in
helping to convert the Spark integration feature to a XEP and in this
way hurting the the anti-monoculture nature of the Jabber community;
unfair competition to other Jabber clients)
2) I don't like companies that love censorship (they even threatened
me in private with disabling my account etc...that's why I plan to
open a blog...once in the future).
You also mention that I should have done these posts in private with
them, well actually that was the first thing I tried, but it didn't
helped. Then I posted a post on their forums. A few weeks later I went
to check for answers and the post disappeared...after I asked them
about this in private, it came out they censored my post and I could
get them to make my post available again. I did not told anything in
public about their censorship until it happened multiple times. So, I
don't see what is wrong with posting my criticism about Jive that - I
agree - got a more rude and public sense. But the reason why this
became public and rude can only be found in Jive's policy of handling
my criticism. If they showed interest to take serious my criticism by
working on it, I would never had to make something public. If they did
not censored my posts, I would not have posted to the point (rude?)
posts. ...I think I once said them giving money to the XSF is not the
same as "taking care of the Jabber community"; I know a lot more
projects/companies that care more about the Jabber community and that
do not give any money to the XSF. For example, AFAIK Process-One does
not sponsor the XSF and I have no problem with that, they still care
more about the Jabber community than Jive Software does. The problem
I'm talking about with Process-One does not affect the broader Jabber
community. I'm not against Process-One, I just feel no interest to
contribute to ejabberd anymore. However, I am against Jive Software
because they hurt the broader Jabber community. That's the difference.
So what Jive Software is doing is what a typical company based on
shareholder-only values:
* hurting the Jabber community to earn more profits in the short run
* by doing this they slow down adoption of Jabber technologies
* by this they reduce their own possible long-term revenue
Anyway, if you want to reply to this Jive specific part of my reply,
please do it in private as it is off-topic here. Or ask me to discuss
this somewhere else. (my blog will take some time  ) )
--
Mvg, Sander Devrieze.
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| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 11:17 am |
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2007/7/27, Sergei Golovan <sgolovan@nes.ru>:
> Currently installing ejabberd from the sources is nearly impossible.
> After 'make install' you won't be able even start ejabberd without
> reading docs. After reading docs you'll be able to start ejabberd, but
> not stop ejabberd. Only after the user will find ejabberdctl which
> isn't installed on 'make install' and has to be found in 'tools'
> directory he possibly will be able to start it. (ejabberdctl isn't
> documented anywhere though).
It is so difficult to get ejabberd installed and working from source
package, that once installed nobody needs a 'make uninstall' option!
This feature request was tracked 27 months ago in Bugzilla by Sander:
http://www.jabber.ru/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=59
and nobody voted for it, only Sander himself 
I've added it to JIRA too, in the hope that it attracts a person with
knowledge in autotools/autoconf that can write a patch.
https://support.process-one.net/browse/EJAB-293
Maybe the problem with Makefile.in is that it has remained almost
unmodified since its creation 45 months ago in SVN r152:
* src/configure.ac: Build system now done using autoconf (thanks
to Balabanov Dmitry)
* src/aclocal.m4: Likewise
* src/**/Makefile.in: Likewise
It's getting old, and needs some attention.
PD: I don't need make uninstall, because I don't even use make install.
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| Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 12:26 pm |
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Hi
> Another interesting bug is a bug in eldap, which was masked in erlang
> up to R11B-1 inclusivly. But installer 1.1.3 ships with erlang R11B-2,
> so all LDAP stuff is broken, and users don't have an opportunity to
> downgrade erlang.
can you tell us a bit more concerning that point please ?
as far as i know nobody raised that problem before and we have
several working ldap use in production (R11B-5/ejabberd trunk)
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| Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 12:36 pm |
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Christophe Romain wrote:
>>Another interesting bug is a bug in eldap, which was masked in erlang
>>up to R11B-1 inclusivly. But installer 1.1.3 ships with erlang R11B-2,
>>so all LDAP stuff is broken, and users don't have an opportunity to
>>downgrade erlang.
>>
>>
>
>can you tell us a bit more concerning that point please ?
>as far as i know nobody raised that problem before and we have
>several working ldap use in production (R11B-5/ejabberd trunk)
>
>
http://www.jabber.ru/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=348
https://forge.process-one.net/changelog/ejabberd/trunk/src/eldap?cs=680
and a lot of screams in ejabberd forums.
Also Micka |
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