| Author |
Message |
|
| Guest |
 Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 9:42 pm |
 |
|
|
Guest
|
Folks,
I feel that yaws is getting ready to gear up to a 2.0 release
I think that maybe that should be a CVS branch which less stable
(if that is possible) than the current 1.x series 
I'd like to see the following
- modules - we've seen quite a few additions to yaws that are not production
quality. I'm personally responsible for at least one, the reverse
proxy. It should
be easier to turn off/on functionality we don't want. The appmods
have been good
allwing such things as yapp to be added entirely outside ....
- svn - It's time to make the change
- seethrough .. maybe the first module  All this talk about
templates, I never saw
saw the light untill I looked at the seethrough code. Way to go.
- Proper testsuites (test_server ?? or anything else ??) This is
crucial, we have a
quite a few semi active developers who all add their own sttuff. All
good, but
always without regard to other (mis) features. I think that Chandrus
ebrowse
application is the client to use in a test suite for yaws.
- better integration/doc with some of these ultra cool js libs that pop
up, e.g. jquery
We have some, but we need more and better docs. And i particular, we
need to make it
easy to get started with e.g. jquery or prototype using yaws.
- rewrite all docs/examples as part of the seethrogh experience .. using
seethrough
- make a real effort to increase quality
- set up a trac bug/task .. bla bla server for yaws.
more ?? what's next ?? ideas ?
/klacke
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| Guest |
| Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 10:34 pm |
|
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Guest
|
This is very exciting to hear.
Most of these are things which have made me stay away from building production
systems on Yaws (the general free-for-all even in the core code, tight coupling
of random things, lack of docs and tests), and I had it on my list to ask you if
there would be suport for my trying to articulate what I thought would be a good
refactoring (maybe a "defactoring") release.
Is your 2.0 already in the works and architected, or is this message really the
very, very beginning? If things are still open, and if you or other Yaws users
are interested, I'd love the chance to share some of my thoughts on how we might
break down a 2.0.
jon
On Fri, Feb 23, 2007 at 10:42:05PM +0100, Claes Wikstrom wrote:
>
> Folks,
>
>
> I feel that yaws is getting ready to gear up to a 2.0 release
>
> I think that maybe that should be a CVS branch which less stable
> (if that is possible) than the current 1.x series
>
> I'd like to see the following
>
>
> - modules - we've seen quite a few additions to yaws that are not production
> quality. I'm personally responsible for at least one, the reverse
> proxy. It should
> be easier to turn off/on functionality we don't want. The appmods
> have been good
> allwing such things as yapp to be added entirely outside ....
>
> - svn - It's time to make the change
>
> - seethrough .. maybe the first module All this talk about
> templates, I never saw
> saw the light untill I looked at the seethrough code. Way to go.
>
> - Proper testsuites (test_server ?? or anything else ??) This is
> crucial, we have a
> quite a few semi active developers who all add their own sttuff. All
> good, but
> always without regard to other (mis) features. I think that Chandrus
> ebrowse
> application is the client to use in a test suite for yaws.
>
> - better integration/doc with some of these ultra cool js libs that pop
> up, e.g. jquery
> We have some, but we need more and better docs. And i particular, we
> need to make it
> easy to get started with e.g. jquery or prototype using yaws.
>
> - rewrite all docs/examples as part of the seethrogh experience .. using
> seethrough
>
> - make a real effort to increase quality
>
> - set up a trac bug/task .. bla bla server for yaws.
>
>
> more ?? what's next ?? ideas ?
>
>
> /klacke
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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| Guest |
| Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 12:01 am |
|
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|
Guest
|
Jonathan Gold wrote:
> This is very exciting to hear.
>
> Most of these are things which have made me stay away from building production
> systems on Yaws (the general free-for-all even in the core code, tight coupling
> of random things, lack of docs and tests), and I had it on my list to ask you if
> there would be suport for my trying to articulate what I thought would be a good
> refactoring (maybe a "defactoring") release.
>
> Is your 2.0 already in the works and architected, or is this message really the
> very, very beginning?
beginning
: If things are still open, and if you or other Yaws users
> are interested, I'd love the chance to share some of my thoughts on how we might
> break down a 2.0.
share away,
I'd like to have some discussion here on the list, after that
I'd like things to get a bit more organized, where we/I actually
make up a list of items through some tool (http://trac.edgewall.org/)
to be done .... etc I.e. getting the Yaws project slightly more
professional than it is today.
There are so many companies today using Yaws in production (including
several of mine) where Q&A efforts are at very serious levels on the
company internal software and I feel that Yaws should ... well get
more organized.
As of today, there are no known bugs in Yaws, all fine. But when we
add features we have no way to know that all the old stuff still works
since there is no regression test suite (my fault)
So share away, and then I'll get the next step organized.
/klacke
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| rsaccon |
| Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 12:27 am |
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User
Joined: 09 Aug 2006
Posts: 144
|
I have one feature request I would like to bring into this discussion: making yaws more pluggable.
Let me give a concrete example for better illustration:
in yaws conf there should be an option to define |
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|
| tobbe |
| Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 9:14 am |
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User
Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Posts: 274
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
|
I think it is a good idea of moving to svn.
Were you thinking on svn-sourceforge or svn-hyber ?
If svn-hyber, then we could setup some mirrors, e.g
on my server, etc...
It is also a good idea of having development
branches and only doing bugfixes in trunk.
Each release should of course also be tagged.
Setting up trac would also be very good!
Regarding testing: I could help to setup Yatsy
http://code.google.com/p/yatsy/
It uses (almost) the same test-suite format as the
Erlang Test Server. The main benefit of using Yatsy is that
there exist a code repository which makes it possible to
hack Yatsy. ETS does not have a public repository.
(We, at Kreditor, is using Yatsy to automatically
run test suites every night, on all our branches.)
Regarding documentation: it would be very nice to have
a way of writing,publishing docs both to www and pdf.
Is anyone aware of a good, easy to use, tool to do this ?
Cheers, Tobbe
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| Guest |
| Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 4:32 pm |
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Guest
|
On 24-Feb-07, at 4:13 AM, Torbjorn Tornkvist wrote:
>
> I think it is a good idea of moving to svn. ...
>
> Regarding documentation: it would be very nice to have
> a way of writing,publishing docs both to www and pdf.
> Is anyone aware of a good, easy to use, tool to do this ?
TWiki (http://twiki.org) has a PDF generation plugin which does a
good hyperlinked job. Other wikis have similar facilities - even
Trac, since you mention it: http://www.trac-hacks.org/wiki/
PageToPdfPlugin
--Toby
>
> Cheers, Tobbe
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| Guest |
| Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 9:42 pm |
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Guest
|
Google code is another option for svn, which also provides wiki and
issue tracking capabilities (though not Trac).
It's also possible to mirror arbitrary SVN repositories (anything you
have read access to) with the svnsync command introduced in Subversion
1.4.
For writing documentation I've had good experiences using Docutils
<http://docutils.sourceforge.net>. It can output XHTML and LaTeX,
which converts to nice looking PDF (with pdfTeX).
-bob
On 2/24/07, Torbjorn Tornkvist <tobbe@tornkvist.org> wrote:
>
> I think it is a good idea of moving to svn.
> Were you thinking on svn-sourceforge or svn-hyber ?
> If svn-hyber, then we could setup some mirrors, e.g
> on my server, etc...
> It is also a good idea of having development
> branches and only doing bugfixes in trunk.
> Each release should of course also be tagged.
>
> Setting up trac would also be very good!
>
> Regarding testing: I could help to setup Yatsy
>
> http://code.google.com/p/yatsy/
>
> It uses (almost) the same test-suite format as the
> Erlang Test Server. The main benefit of using Yatsy is that
> there exist a code repository which makes it possible to
> hack Yatsy. ETS does not have a public repository.
> (We, at Kreditor, is using Yatsy to automatically
> run test suites every night, on all our branches.)
>
> Regarding documentation: it would be very nice to have
> a way of writing,publishing docs both to www and pdf.
> Is anyone aware of a good, easy to use, tool to do this ?
>
> Cheers, Tobbe
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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| Guest |
| Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 5:30 am |
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Guest
|
I have a feature request
The ability provide binaries instead of only .yaws files as input for page
generation.
We have been playing around with it - but rewriting yaws with every upgrade is
not appealing
On Friday 23 February 2007 23:42:05 Claes Wikstrom wrote:
> Folks,
>
>
> I feel that yaws is getting ready to gear up to a 2.0 release
>
> I think that maybe that should be a CVS branch which less stable
> (if that is possible) than the current 1.x series
>
> I'd like to see the following
>
>
> - modules - we've seen quite a few additions to yaws that are not
> production quality. I'm personally responsible for at least one, the
> reverse proxy. It should
> be easier to turn off/on functionality we don't want. The appmods
> have been good
> allwing such things as yapp to be added entirely outside ....
>
> - svn - It's time to make the change
>
> - seethrough .. maybe the first module All this talk about
> templates, I never saw
> saw the light untill I looked at the seethrough code. Way to go.
>
> - Proper testsuites (test_server ?? or anything else ??) This is
> crucial, we have a
> quite a few semi active developers who all add their own sttuff. All
> good, but
> always without regard to other (mis) features. I think that Chandrus
> ebrowse
> application is the client to use in a test suite for yaws.
>
> - better integration/doc with some of these ultra cool js libs that pop
> up, e.g. jquery
> We have some, but we need more and better docs. And i particular, we
> need to make it
> easy to get started with e.g. jquery or prototype using yaws.
>
> - rewrite all docs/examples as part of the seethrogh experience .. using
> seethrough
>
> - make a real effort to increase quality
>
> - set up a trac bug/task .. bla bla server for yaws.
>
>
> more ?? what's next ?? ideas ?
>
>
> /klacke
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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-------------------------------------
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Mobile: +27 84 468 3138
Phone : +27 11 802 6162
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| Guest |
| Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:26 am |
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Guest
|
> I have a feature request
>
> The ability provide binaries instead of only .yaws files as input for page
> generation.
Sorry, I'm not clear on what you mean here.
Can you please give a specific example, or explain how this would differ
from the CGI facility currently in place for Yaws?
Cheers,
Julian
>
> We have been playing around with it - but rewriting yaws with every
upgrade is
> not appealing
>
>
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| Guest |
| Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 6:09 pm |
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Guest
|
On 2/25/07, julian@precisium.com <julian@precisium.com> wrote:
> > I have a feature request
> >
> > The ability provide binaries instead of only .yaws files as input for page
> > generation.
>
> Sorry, I'm not clear on what you mean here.
> Can you please give a specific example, or explain how this would differ
> from the CGI facility currently in place for Yaws?
Sounds like he means .beam files?
-bob
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| Guest |
| Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 4:07 pm |
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Guest
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Hi,
I have a couple of suggestions:
- It seems like yaws_api:parse_multipart() parses turns the binary
data into a list before parsing it. This is probably quite
memory-intensive for large files. It would probably be better to keep
the data as binary.
- Use the operating system's send_file() C function for static files
(I'm tired of hearing the "what about static file performace?"
question ).
- Removing unsafe calls to list_to_atom() in json.erl and haxe.erl,
even if this affects existing application code.
For supporting new template languages, I think you should consider
using ErlyWeb because it already provides the plumbing for separating
the controller logic from the view template logic. (I, personally,
prefer ErlTL, but I am willing to help with supporting other options.)
Regarding backend integration with Javascript libraries, I recently
saw a good quote by one of the Django developers: "Why use an electric
wheelchair if you can walk?"
Regards,
Yariv
On 2/23/07, Claes Wikstrom <klacke@tail-f.com> wrote:
>
> Folks,
>
>
> I feel that yaws is getting ready to gear up to a 2.0 release
>
> I think that maybe that should be a CVS branch which less stable
> (if that is possible) than the current 1.x series
>
> I'd like to see the following
>
>
> - modules - we've seen quite a few additions to yaws that are not production
> quality. I'm personally responsible for at least one, the reverse
> proxy. It should
> be easier to turn off/on functionality we don't want. The appmods
> have been good
> allwing such things as yapp to be added entirely outside ....
>
> - svn - It's time to make the change
>
> - seethrough .. maybe the first module All this talk about
> templates, I never saw
> saw the light untill I looked at the seethrough code. Way to go.
>
> - Proper testsuites (test_server ?? or anything else ??) This is
> crucial, we have a
> quite a few semi active developers who all add their own sttuff. All
> good, but
> always without regard to other (mis) features. I think that Chandrus
> ebrowse
> application is the client to use in a test suite for yaws.
>
> - better integration/doc with some of these ultra cool js libs that pop
> up, e.g. jquery
> We have some, but we need more and better docs. And i particular, we
> need to make it
> easy to get started with e.g. jquery or prototype using yaws.
>
> - rewrite all docs/examples as part of the seethrogh experience .. using
> seethrough
>
> - make a real effort to increase quality
>
> - set up a trac bug/task .. bla bla server for yaws.
>
>
> more ?? what's next ?? ideas ?
>
>
> /klacke
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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| Guest |
| Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 6:37 pm |
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| noss |
| Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 12:13 am |
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User
Joined: 09 Oct 2005
Posts: 290
|
I find testing to be quite crucial if yaws is going to go through a
beta 2.0 phase
with lots of ruthless modifications.
Using yatsy seem to be a good idea. I dont quite understand the
"more-than-i-thought-was-necessary" architecture of yatsy. Is it intended for
long running tests for load performance etc and not only unit tests?
My observation is that small things, such as the values of the arg-field
is what has changed over minor releases. I doubt anyone would disagree
that having units tests for detecting these early is a bad idea.
How do one set this up? a *_SUITE.erl file that register its process, fire away
constructed http requests using ibrowse to yaws pages that message back
results to the registered name of the test process?
On 2/24/07, Torbjorn Tornkvist <tobbe@tornkvist.org> wrote:
> Regarding testing: I could help to setup Yatsy
>
> http://code.google.com/p/yatsy/
>
> It uses (almost) the same test-suite format as the
> Erlang Test Server. The main benefit of using Yatsy is that
> there exist a code repository which makes it possible to
> hack Yatsy. ETS does not have a public repository.
> (We, at Kreditor, is using Yatsy to automatically
> run test suites every night, on all our branches.)
>
> Regarding documentation: it would be very nice to have
> a way of writing,publishing docs both to www and pdf.
> Is anyone aware of a good, easy to use, tool to do this ?
>
> Cheers, Tobbe
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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| tobbe |
| Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 4:50 pm |
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User
Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Posts: 274
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
|
Yariv Sadan skrev:
> Hi,
>
> I have a couple of suggestions:
>
....snip...
>
> For supporting new template languages, I think you should consider
> using ErlyWeb because it already provides the plumbing for separating
> the controller logic from the view template logic. (I, personally,
> prefer ErlTL, but I am willing to help with supporting other options.)
After having read this excellent paper:
http://www.cs.usfca.edu/~parrt/papers/mvc.templates.pdf
that 'mikkom' recommended in a comment on the ErlTl blog entry.
I think it is important to carfully consider how a template
system for Yaws should be constructed.
Personally, I like the look of Seethrough, but as I understand
it from reading the paper above it (e.g) breaks an important property
in that it allows attributes to be injected from the controller/model.
It is in an early stage though and will/could probably be revised
many times still.
I haven't used any template system yet for doing Erlang-Web development
(appart from SSI which the article immediately does away with) and can't
really state what the requirements on such a system should be.
However, I've become more and more unhappy with the current situation
of mixing EHTML with control logic, etc so the article above was
a really good eye-opener to me.
It would be interesting to have a discussion about this topic.
For example:
+ What do you people think a template system should support?
+ How does ErlTL/Seethrough relate to the definitions in the above article?
>
> Regarding backend integration with Javascript libraries, I recently
> saw a good quote by one of the Django developers: "Why use an electric
> wheelchair if you can walk?"
I've been doing quite a lot of work with jquery (jquery.com) lately
and I can really recommend it. I think it is especially suited for
functional programmers which may (like my self) have a hard time
with all that OOP.
Cheers, Tobbe
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| tobbe |
| Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 4:58 pm |
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Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Posts: 274
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
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Christian S skrev:
> I find testing to be quite crucial if yaws is going to go through a
> beta 2.0 phase
> with lots of ruthless modifications.
>
> Using yatsy seem to be a good idea. I dont quite understand the
> "more-than-i-thought-was-necessary" architecture of yatsy. Is it intended for
> long running tests for load performance etc and not only unit tests?
Well, it is actually a replacement for the old Erlang Test Server.
We are using it to run test suites every night. It can either
execute the test-cases on the target system (via rpc) or run
the test code in the Yatsy node itself (e.g issuing xmlrpc requests
towards the target system). The result is stored in a set of HTML
pages. Also, an email is sent to inform about the outcome.
Perhaps this isn't suitable for testing Yaws?
I haven't thought much about what kind of test suites that
would be needed.
Cheers, Tobbe
>
> My observation is that small things, such as the values of the arg-field
> is what has changed over minor releases. I doubt anyone would disagree
> that having units tests for detecting these early is a bad idea.
>
> How do one set this up? a *_SUITE.erl file that register its process, fire away
> constructed http requests using ibrowse to yaws pages that message back
> results to the registered name of the test process?
>
> On 2/24/07, Torbjorn Tornkvist <tobbe@tornkvist.org> wrote:
>> Regarding testing: I could help to setup Yatsy
>>
>> http://code.google.com/p/yatsy/
>>
>> It uses (almost) the same test-suite format as the
>> Erlang Test Server. The main benefit of using Yatsy is that
>> there exist a code repository which makes it possible to
>> hack Yatsy. ETS does not have a public repository.
>> (We, at Kreditor, is using Yatsy to automatically
>> run test suites every night, on all our branches.)
>>
>> Regarding documentation: it would be very nice to have
>> a way of writing,publishing docs both to www and pdf.
>> Is anyone aware of a good, easy to use, tool to do this ?
>>
>> Cheers, Tobbe
>>
>>
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